...for now (#LOL). You may have seen the debate and the nonsense on Twitter that's followed. I'm honestly tired of it. The post below doesn't actually speak about the contents of the video, it was written before I'd seen the video in relation to grime artists afraid to name homegrown & dancehall artists as influence.
Grime is like hip hop, but it's also like reggae. That doesn't mean it is one or the other, it just it what it is. Dancehall imo plays a bigger influence, but that's because most of the people in UK over the course of our music history have been Jamaican. Grime is an example of the UK version of the aforementioned not an extension of.
He called me out on twitter for being "reckless on twitter but quiet as a mouse in person". These times, on the day they rated me for turning up cos they didn't think I would. Also, he admitted that at the end of the day it's all tags for selling (a point I put to him) yet he still wants to hype on Twitter? Strange.
The fact I walked into their office, to debate something with one of their main panelists, left it in the hands of their editors and still have people siding with me is quite peculiar considering how much talking time he has.
My final point in the video is edited like I didn't make one. His final point about "Globalisation..." came before mine, he said scrap that because they only gave us 30secs to summarise it. His final point as far as I knew was "Grime is an extension of hip hop". I would have countered the one in the video easily with "Jamaican music did that first, but grime is it's own thing".
Let's address the things you didn't see; for instance me pointing out Woo riddim being similar to a dancehall riddim project. His response: "You hear that on a bunch of mixtapes with people freestyling over other beats". How are they the same? I also pointed out the live element Eskimo Dance, Sidewinder and pirate radio are close to Sting, MC's spitting for reloads etc. he couldn't answer that because hip hop doesn't have an equivalent. I understand the debate is edited to cause further debates so it has to be seen to be equal. However, he's chatting nonsense. He's talking similarities without connecting the dots of how hip hop influenced grime directly. I break down the evolution. He admitted off camera that he only went to garage and jungle raves because they were the things going on at the time. He also said he was in America when grime was blowing up.
My reason for debating with Snips is he need to understand we have built our own scenes over here. I didn't realise he and some others think hip hop birthed the underbelly culture making music and turntable and a mic. Reggae did both before hip hop. Bob Marley anyone? As far as "rapping" Kool Herc took "toasting" (what Jamaicans called what is now known as "rapping") and sound system culture from Jamaica to America, they mixed it with their own influences and out came hip hop. Sounds familiar to what Snips says about grime and hip hop right? Don't see me saying hip hop is reggae though.
Again, I don't think grime is reggae, but it most certainly isn't an extension of hip hop. I quite clearly state in the video that I agree hip hop is like grime in some instances, not so much directly though, so I don't know why people think I don't see there are similarities.
If you watch the video and took that I say "Grime is reggae" out of it, you need to watch the video again. I quite clearly say grime is a natural evolution of UK music. The reason reggae even enters the argument is grime has been influenced by reggae/dancehall more than hip hop, so before you say "It's an extension of hip hop" reggae has a bigger effect - dead that.
And "Hip hop" doesn't mean "social underclass making music". It's black American culture, like we have "urban" culture in the UK.
But at the end of the day grime is grime. Music is music. Tags are for marketing departments. To quote Lady Gaga "just dance"
Blessings and guidance
p.s. keep a look out for my exclusive Wiley interview. When I say it is the maddiisssttt ting, yeah? Not even hyping. You will understand Wiley a whole lot more.
Grime is like hip hop, but it's also like reggae. That doesn't mean it is one or the other, it just it what it is. Dancehall imo plays a bigger influence, but that's because most of the people in UK over the course of our music history have been Jamaican. Grime is an example of the UK version of the aforementioned not an extension of.
He called me out on twitter for being "reckless on twitter but quiet as a mouse in person". These times, on the day they rated me for turning up cos they didn't think I would. Also, he admitted that at the end of the day it's all tags for selling (a point I put to him) yet he still wants to hype on Twitter? Strange.
The fact I walked into their office, to debate something with one of their main panelists, left it in the hands of their editors and still have people siding with me is quite peculiar considering how much talking time he has.
My final point in the video is edited like I didn't make one. His final point about "Globalisation..." came before mine, he said scrap that because they only gave us 30secs to summarise it. His final point as far as I knew was "Grime is an extension of hip hop". I would have countered the one in the video easily with "Jamaican music did that first, but grime is it's own thing".
Let's address the things you didn't see; for instance me pointing out Woo riddim being similar to a dancehall riddim project. His response: "You hear that on a bunch of mixtapes with people freestyling over other beats". How are they the same? I also pointed out the live element Eskimo Dance, Sidewinder and pirate radio are close to Sting, MC's spitting for reloads etc. he couldn't answer that because hip hop doesn't have an equivalent. I understand the debate is edited to cause further debates so it has to be seen to be equal. However, he's chatting nonsense. He's talking similarities without connecting the dots of how hip hop influenced grime directly. I break down the evolution. He admitted off camera that he only went to garage and jungle raves because they were the things going on at the time. He also said he was in America when grime was blowing up.
My reason for debating with Snips is he need to understand we have built our own scenes over here. I didn't realise he and some others think hip hop birthed the underbelly culture making music and turntable and a mic. Reggae did both before hip hop. Bob Marley anyone? As far as "rapping" Kool Herc took "toasting" (what Jamaicans called what is now known as "rapping") and sound system culture from Jamaica to America, they mixed it with their own influences and out came hip hop. Sounds familiar to what Snips says about grime and hip hop right? Don't see me saying hip hop is reggae though.
Again, I don't think grime is reggae, but it most certainly isn't an extension of hip hop. I quite clearly state in the video that I agree hip hop is like grime in some instances, not so much directly though, so I don't know why people think I don't see there are similarities.
If you watch the video and took that I say "Grime is reggae" out of it, you need to watch the video again. I quite clearly say grime is a natural evolution of UK music. The reason reggae even enters the argument is grime has been influenced by reggae/dancehall more than hip hop, so before you say "It's an extension of hip hop" reggae has a bigger effect - dead that.
And "Hip hop" doesn't mean "social underclass making music". It's black American culture, like we have "urban" culture in the UK.
But at the end of the day grime is grime. Music is music. Tags are for marketing departments. To quote Lady Gaga "just dance"
Blessings and guidance
p.s. keep a look out for my exclusive Wiley interview. When I say it is the maddiisssttt ting, yeah? Not even hyping. You will understand Wiley a whole lot more.
hip hop's just the American version of dancehall isn't it?
ReplyDeleteThere's a point there, but it's all from the same place really. Social underclass having a voice. They all intertwine, but are all their own separate thing in my opinion
ReplyDelete